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Poster: Time Traveller Date: Nov 3, 2009 12:39am
Forum: texts Subject: Re: Dover publication facsimile

Gerry,

of cause then, removing the Google logo and indroduction from Googles out of copyright books, then uploading to the IA is legal too?

But i bet Google Books terms of download (use) stop you from removing their copyrighted logo?

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Poster: garthus Date: Nov 3, 2009 6:30am
Forum: texts Subject: Re: Dover publication facsimile

Peter,

Nothing can legally stop someone from removing the Google watermark; in fact to make the document public domain once more requires its removal. HeHeHe :)

Gerry

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Poster: Time Traveller Date: Nov 3, 2009 8:49pm
Forum: texts Subject: Re: Dover publication facsimile

Yes Gerry,

But you have to download those Google watermarked scans, from Google Books.

I have not yet looked, but I would be amazed if it is not covered in the Google Books Terms of Download. (Use)

But terms of use is not exactly legal USA law except the law does allow Google to protect its terms of use

So Google does have millions of bucks allocated to retain a whole building of lawyers, to enforce their Terms of Use.

Can you fight that?

1, they would only have to prove the text came from Google Books, (meaning you by default, agreed to the terms of use) And you uploaded elsewhere despite their Terms of Use.

2, removing the watermark, may be be legal, but at the same time, it could be argued you were hiding the ID of the legal owner, the one you swiped the text from. Steal a book, from a physical library, even if the book is out of copyright, removing any labels identifying that library as the owner, can be used in a court of law, to prove your theft was intentional, premeditated, and not just a oversight, forgetting to return the book.

3, who is to know if there is no hidden unknown watermark somewhere in the text.

But what happens if somebody in a 3rd world country, with no real legal system, or extradition treaty, overnight grabs the whole lot off Google, and uploads the booty left right and centre, and upside down world wide?

Maybe those original Nigerian spammers (original as they actually live in Nigeria)might like a new project?

They could charge the rest of the World 50 cents a download, thus they would have a income again.

Question, what if somebody on the Space Station,or a privately owned one, did something illegal, which resulted in Google being upset and annoyed, would that person be covered by any Earthly law?

Peter

This post was modified by Time Traveller on 2009-11-04 04:49:38

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Poster: garthus Date: Nov 3, 2009 8:45pm
Forum: texts Subject: Re: Dover publication facsimile

Peter,

American copyright law is very clear on this point. One cannot enforce an ownership claim for something which they do not own. Regardless of what Google's use claims are they cannot be enforced and in any case they could never support any claim of proof. This is why they have never taken anyone to court, I would just counter-sue them and they would have to pay me for a frivolous lawsuit. Ditto for their so-called orphan books agreement. That agreement will not be worth the paper it is printed on since the whole idea of Orphan books is that ownership is questionable, so how can someone enter into any agreement concerning something which they do not own. Wait and see how th Courts rule. Probably that even if Google's agreement is legal, it could never be enforced against a third party why tried to do something with those Orphan works. Health aside; I for one would tie them up in Court with a whole series of lawsuits, and I am sure others would and in the end we would have the law on our side; unless Congress changes it, but I doubt if such a retroactive change would get upheld by the Courts.

Gerry

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Poster: Time Traveller Date: Nov 3, 2009 8:59pm
Forum: texts Subject: Re: Dover publication facsimile

I revised that post while you were replying to it

if it is so easy, why aren't people already doing it flat out?

And would Big Brewster leave these texts on the IA, if Google got upset?

Peter

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Poster: garthus Date: Nov 3, 2009 9:03pm
Forum: texts Subject: Re: Dover publication facsimile

Peter,

Exactly, Google will find at some time in the near future, as Microsoft understood my earlier; that time is on our side. There is really not a lot of money to be made in this area and the right thing to do is to make the public domain stuff available for all of the world's use (Universe also). I am really only spending time and maybe 15% of my income on what I do, they are spending real money and eventually it will catch up with the as their stock values continue to tumble.

Gerry

P.S. my hospital procedure was moved to 18 November of this year; some sort of emergency patient moved ahead of me.

Gerry